Kettlebell Kaos Interview
BJ Gaddour Grills Jason C. Brown and Pamela MacElree of Kettlebell Athletics on Saturday, March 27, 2010
CLICK HERE TO LISTEN TO THE FREE MP3 AUDIO OF THIS INTERVIEW!!
Hey Everyone! This is BJ Gaddour, Co-Creator and Fitness Director of Workout Muse! April 2010 is Kettlebell Month. I am very excited to introduce our special guests today, Pam MacElree and Jason Brown from Kettlebell Athletics and they are going to take us through Kettlebell Training 101. We’ve teamed up to put together some custom interval training workout tracks to help automate their kettlebell training systems. Pam and Jason have come up with a really cool name, Kettlebell Kaos, to describe the templates that we are going to be talking about today. So we are going to have a great interview!
Let me first start with having Pam and Jason introduce themselves and talk about their background and experience with kettlebells and why they are so passionate about kettlebell training.
So Pam, why don’t you start us off!
Pam MacElree: Well, first of all, BJ, thank you for having us. This is awesome and we’re really excited about it. I’ve been kettlebell training myself for about 6 years. It was just something that I picked up at a gym that I went to- a random gym. There were like two kettlebells in the corner and I learned how to use them. From that point forward they were fun to train with and it wasn’t boring training at the gym anymore. I could always do something different. Then I figured I could go outside with them and I was always able to switch things up. That’s when I started introducing kettlebell training to clients that I was working with. Then Jason and I met and became business partners and from there it’s kind of been a whirlwind to where we are today. Long story short is that it’s just a really great tool to use either alone or to integrate with your current programs to avoid boredom.
BJ: Awesome! Jason, let us know a little bit about your self buddy.
Jason Brown: Alright! So I was born in Russia in 1973 and ah… I don’t remember seeing… No! I’m joking! I wasn’t born in Russia, BJ.
(Laughter)
I’ve always been amazed and interested in Russian sports science probably every since seeing what is it… Rocky IV? Back in the 80’s? I’ve always been interested in it. I picked up every book I could find on Russian sport science, Eastern European sport science, etc. So I was always familiar with kettlebells but they weren’t available here. It was about the year 2000 when they first became available in the U.S. I remember that they weren’t even available but you could pre-order them on-line and I pre-ordered them – I pre-ordered two full sets – back in 2000. I was so excited as soon as I saw the add in the back of a magazine I ordered them. I couldn’t wait for them to come in the mail. As soon as they came in the mail, I unpacked them as quickly as I could and I’ve been training with them ever since. That started back in 2000 and it’s been almost a decade… or it is a decade I guess.
BJ: That’s awesome man! On a personal note, back in I believe September of 2009, I had the opportunity to go to the Level 1 Kettlebell Certification that Pam and Jason have developed. It was just awesome and I can’t even tell you how much impact it’s had on my own training routines. The integration of the kettlebell into our bootcamps has been a huge hit with our campers too. It provides a lot of great variety to our previous structure. Again, personally, I use it on a daily basis with my own training. It’s a phenomenal tool! If there were three tools that I would use outside of bodyweight-based exercises; it would be a kettlebell, a suspension-training unit and a band. I can’t get enough of a kettlebellx since working with these guys. Again we’ll talk more about how you can learn about getting the Kettlebell Certification towards the end of the call. It’s really just a phenomenal tool to integrate into your program. What Pam and Jason do extremely well is teach you the progressions involved in learning the proper technique to perform the movements safely and effectively. Some people have put out products regarding kettlebells without having the true knowledge regarding how to execute the movements. Pam and Jason live it and they just do a phenomenal job. That’s why I’m so jacked about this venture because they just bring a whole lot to the table.
So, let’s start with the history of the kettlebell itself. Obviously, Jason just mentioned that it’s a tool that wasn’t really available in the U.S. until 2000. It has been used for years and years – decades – in Eastern Europe. Can you guys take us through a brief history of kettlebell training and how that all works?
Jason Brown: Sure. The first time the word Girya (the way that you say kettlebell in Russian) appeared in the Russian dictionary was 1709. So it’s actually 300 years old. A lot of people think it’s a recent fad, but it’s pretty archaic and it’s a 300-year-old training tool. It originally started out as a standard measure for agricultural reasons. People would put a little kettlebell on one side of the scale and whatever… 15 lbs. of wheat on one side and a 15 lb. kettlebell on the other. So they would use it as a standard weight in agricultural settings and in marketplaces. I guess hyperactive Russians decided to start playing around with the kettlebells and throw them, lift them at these little local fairs and little markets and it eventually became a sport. The former Soviet Union considered kettlebell training so important that in 1980, they formed a Kettlebell Committee. They chose the kettlebell for five reasons, one of which was the effectiveness of the training. They knew that it was not hard to implement in a large group setting or in an individual setting. They also knew that there was very low risk of injury associated with kettlebelling. So those are three of the big main reasons why they formed this Kettlebell Committee. They also formed it with the desire of wanting to keep the population fit and to increase their work capacity. So in our terms we would say, fitness or general fitness preparation. They chose the kettlebell to raise the general fitness preparation of their population and that would lower their health care costs. So think about it, at one point in time they considered the kettlebell so important that it was sort of like a nationalized health care piece of equipment. Which I find pretty cool! Did I bore you guys?
BJ: That’s really awesome stuff; I actually had no idea about all of that. Pam did you have anything to add to that or did Jason pretty much hit it on the head?
Pam MacElree: Ah, he pretty much covered every aspect of history prior to the “fad” that’s now in the United States.
Jason Brown: BJ, one other point that I want to make is that kettlebells were here when people from Eastern Europe came to America. There’s some very old photos that you can see online and that we’ve included within our Certification manual of old gymnasiums that actually have kettlebells laid out on the floor. So they were here, but when everything started to become more mechanized, they fell out of flavor. But they were here back in the 1900’s and our ancestors did train with them and they were part of the American gymnasium at one point in time. Just like everything, rings were there, bands and ropes were there. A lot of gymnastics equipment and all that stuff that fell out of flavor is coming right back.
BJ: I know you guys have some pretty strong opinions about how the kettlebell has become a fad in the last couple of years, and with anything that’s a fad it can be both a great benefit to all and also a potential downfall, especially for people who are abusing the kettlebell with how they implement it. So can you guys kind of talk about that aspect of it over the last couple of years and what your thoughts are?
Pam McElree: I think the biggest thing, as like with most fads, there’s an influx of interest, almost faster than anyone can control. As far as making sure that there’s proper teaching, that everyone – instructors specifically - goes through learning themselves before they try to teach someone else. Like the biggest thing in our certifications is, sometimes we have people who have very little kettlebell training experience, but they want the knowledge so they attend the course. We always let everyone know that they should spend some time really perfecting their own form and their own cueing when it comes to kettlebell training – or any other training for that matter – before they try and introduce it to clients or group fitness or bootcamp type scenarios. If you have bad form and bad practice yourself, then you’re just going to carry that over to your client base. In regard to the fad, the most important thing we feel is actually learning how to do all of the kettlebell exercises safely and correctly before trying to teach it to someone else. That’s one thing that can easily get overlooked. Everyone gets really excited about new things that come into the industry, because there’s something new to do, but then they don’t take the time to educate themselves on implementing it and using it in a proper way. So that’s the biggest thing when it comes to going into the fad without proper instruction and not enough knowledge.
Jason Brown: My biggest thing is just like… Pam and I attended a workshop in New York and it’s like a huge, 5-day event in the fitness industry and Perform Better sponsored me to give a talk. There was another kettlebell presenter there doing something she called Kettlebell Complexes. It was basically a step-aerobics class while holding a kettlebell. My biggest pet peeve is that if you want to teach a step aerobics class, then just teach a step-aerobics class. A lot of people actually left this person’s class and presentation complaining that 1) they never picked up a kettlebell, 2) they never learned the proper movement and 3) they were going to hurt themselves as kettlebells were falling all over the place and they just didn’t enjoy themselves. So I think a lot of people are going to get hurt. A lot of people are going to misunderstand what the kettlebell is actually used for because a lot of fitness professionals are jumping on the bandwagon and trying to do stuff with the kettlebell that it wasn’t originally designed for and they are just treating it as a medicine ball or a smart ball, if that makes sense.
Pam McElree: In addition to what Jason said, there’s the whole risk reward part of training and that’s just not around kettlebell training but in this particular scenario it totally was. Some things are very effective when done with a certain tool, but there are other things that you have to think to yourself if your are going to put your clients in a particular situation just so you can say it’s something new and different. When in reality, a different tool or even no-load or no weight at all would be a better option than the precarious movement and body positionings that you can be put into.
Jason Brown: Just going back to Pam’s original point and we run into this all the time, it’s like, so my degree is in Kinesiology, right? A lot of fitness professionals and strength coaches think that because their degree is Exercise Science or that they’re a CSCS, that they 1) know how to apply the kettlebell or 2) that they know how to teach it or they know how to perform that movement and it’s just not a fact. Any good coach knows that if they want to teach the Olympic lifts, they have to go learn the proper technique with the Olympic lifts, with the barbell, right? If you want to integrate the power lifts very well, you have to learn how to do the power lifts well. You have to learn how to bench, you have to learn how to squat, you have to learn how to deadlift very well. You have to learn every tip and every technique used to enhance those movements. It’s the same with the kettlebell. It’s a different tool. You have to use the unique coaching tools for that specific tool. Just because you know how to do a dumbbell snatch or a barbell snatch, doesn’t mean that you can translate your knowledge of one tool over into the knowledge of using another tool. I think a lot of people lose site of that and it is a different tool and I think everybody should treat it as a different tool. Some of it is very similar but a lot of it is unique to the kettlebells as well.
BJ: I’d like to just to add a personal anecdote to that, having gone through your certification. I have been training since I was 14 and I haven’t missed a workout since I was 14. So I have been working out for a long time. I used to do a lot of Olympic-style lifting with barbells as a college football player and I will just flat out tell you that it is a totally different ballgame when you use a kettlebell versus a barbell. I really wish that we would’ve incorporated more kettlebell training back when I used to play because I truly feel now, after using kettlebells, that the fixed barbell itself is really disadvantageous for many athletic movements. But learning the clean, I mean I was very good at hang cleans and power cleans in college, but as Pam and Jason can tell you, I could have been used for a demonstration on how NOT to do a clean when they first taught me because it’s just totally different. I think the biggest take-aways from their certification were: 1) Bodyweight before external resistance. It does not make sense to do a goblet squat if you can’t do a pain-free range of motion body squat. With that as well, addressing the key areas of the body that require mobility- you can’t properly perform a swing if you have poor hip mobility. Pam and Jason did a great job of showing the corrective exercises and progressions required to properly perform the kettlebell exercises. Let’s look at two foundational movements that they taught at the certification, the high pull and the swing. The first thing they touch on with the swing is that you should be able to do a stiff-legged deadlift or what some call a Romanian deadlift because if you can’t do that effectively, in a safe, full-range of motion format, your swings will be awful. You’ll put yourself in a position to hurt your back. The same thing with the high pull, if you can’t do a sumo deadlift, which is the precursor to the actual pull aspect of the movement, it doesn’t make sense to skip that step and go to the high pull. So they did a phenomenal job in the certification of kind of breaking things down like that. So not only can you yourself learn it better, when you’re teaching it to your groups or your clients, you can go through these Level 1, 2 and 3 progressions. So again, don’t just buy these things and add them to your clients or campers workouts. I spent a couple of months after the certification using them before I even considered implementing them into the camp, because you have to make sure you know what you’re doing before you try to teach somebody else. Moving on from there, talking about safety and progression, could you guys kind of take us through some general guidelines with regards towards kettlebell safety, loading selection and that type of thing? I know lots of people are interested in learning that.
Jason Brown: You led perfectly into it BJ. Bodyweight before any external resistance. So you need to be able to control your own body. We look for certain things, one exercise we call the good morning stretch where we make sure that you can maintain a nice neutral spine. We make sure that you can sit back with your hips and we want your hips to be able to move back in space. We want to see that you can control several joints over the entire kinetic chain while you perform those movements before we load you externally. When we do load you externally, we don’t go right away to the fast movements. Like you said, you need to be able to deadlift before you can swing. The swing is basically a faster deadlift pattern. It’s a hip-dominant movement that’s based off of the deadlift. You have to be able to control the deadlift pattern slowly and under control before you progress to the swing. A lot of people miss that and go right to the swing, which is a ballistic exercise. We consider kettlebell training to be plyometric. It is a form of plyometric training. Again going back to where a lot of people miss things is that they get thrown right into the faster movements. Would you throw a brand new client into a plyometric program, before establishing a base? No, of course not. No responsible professional would. For some reason when kettlebell training is approached, standard progression is thrown out the window and people attack the cool, sexy stuff right away. We all like sexy stuff but… sorry, I’m ranting BJ.
BJ: I love sexy stuff.
Pam McElree: I figured that was coming.
(Laughter)
Pam McElree: After that, then BJ, you asked about load and how do you tell what size kettlebell to start people on. Unfortunately, for every person it can be very different, even for a beginner. Approximately, you start a female with an 8-10 kilo kettlebell, which is roughly 18-26 lbs. Men will start with probably a 16-kilo kettlebell and progress to a 20 or 24 over a short period of time. So that’s 35 lbs. up to 53 lbs. But depending on the exercise as well, you may need a heavier or lighter kettlebell. There are some kettlebell specific exercises that are much easier learned and taught with a heavier kettlebell and then there are ones based on certain people’s ability to stabilize their shoulder they may need a lighter kettlebell. The general rule of thumb for starting people off would be 8-12 kilos for women and 16-20 kilos for men.
Jason Brown: BJ, I’d like to just bring up a point. We talked about this at our last workshop when we were together at the IYCA. It sucks because kettlebells are a little more expensive than a dumbbell or other training tools but, sometimes people think that you only need one size kettlebell and that is true in certain situations, but sometimes you have to treat the kettlebell like other tools. Like if you were to train a high school athlete or a person just interested in general fitness, would you only give them one size dumbbell and expect that to cover the whole gauntlet of movements? I might be able to bench press 100 lb. dumbbells, but I can’t curl a 100 lb. dumbbell. It’s the same idea. I might be able to easily snatch a 71 lb. kettlebell, but I might not be able to do a Turkish getup with a 70 lb. kettlebell, if that makes sense. Sometimes you need different weights for different movements just like you would if it were a different training tool.
BJ: Very cool. One question, this is one thing that I noticed with your certification. You stress learning the movements unilaterally. So learning one arm at a time before moving on to the two-arm progression. Can you touch on why you guys did that, because I thought that was a very cool way of approaching it?
Jason Brown: Traditionally… Well, it’s weird. Like when you train with other tools, you learn them two at a time. Zach Even-Esh (of Underground Strength Coach) has a funny story. He didn’t know that you were supposed to learn one hand at a time. He was like ‘dude, my whole life I lifted two dumbbells… Or a barbell, I never thought about doing stuff one-handed.’ So he learned doing all the kettlebell skills two handed and he didn’t know that traditionally you learn one-handed. I think kettlebells are unique in that going with one hand allows for more flexibility. You see that when we teach two-handed swings, a lot of people are bound up through their thoracic spine or their hips. They lack mobility in one area. When you go unilateral, it actually helps free up whatever that limitation is and their movement patterns are usually better single-handed. I don’t know if that answers your question, BJ.
BJ: No that was perfect. That was dead on.
Jason Brown: One other thing, BJ, at least that I experience and I’m not sure if Pam has experienced this as much as I have, but if somebody presents lower back pain during a kettlebell movement, like say if you gave them two-handed swings, you can try one-handed swings. Often times, there’s a little bit of transverse plane movement (rotational movement) going on. I don’t know if that’s what it is, but it seems like if the one handed swing doesn’t hurt their back, the two-handed swing would. Same thing with snatching. A lot of people have overhead limitations when using both arms, but then we’ll go overhead with one arm and I don’t know if it’s the slight transverse plane motion, but it seems to really free them up and allow them to get the movement down much quicker.
BJ: And obviously, it’s got the added benefit of shoring up imbalances between sides. It’s something I never thought about and I’m really glad I learned about through your certification. It makes a huge difference. I’ve seen with our campers and my own progressions that you just learn things a lot quicker when using one arm at a time with a lot of those movements. I just wanted to mention that point and I kind of goes right into the next topic which is, why use the kettlebell? What are the benefits of doing so? Like anything in life when you dig deeper, you find a world of applications and possibilities that you never previously thought of. The same thing happened after I went to their certification and started playing around with this thing. It just has application after application, whether it be improving stability, conditioning, strength, power, strength and power endurance or sports specific skills. So, can you guys just take us through the major benefits of kettlebell training?
Jason Brown: BJ, my favorite thing is this: It does a perfect job of blending strength training with something that we would traditionally call cardio. It sort of hits everything. I think it’s great because everyday, more people get busier. When people have such a high impact tool where they can train 35-40 minutes a day and cover strength and endurance, cover their cardio, cover their flexibility and mobility with one training tool, I think they are much more prone to do that and enjoy that training all that much more than having to divide their training into: Today I’m going to lift weights and tomorrow I’m going to go on a three mile jog or something like that.
Pam McElree: That is actually one of my favorite reasons also, but the other component of it for me anyway, is the versatility of it. Like everyone’s going to see when they have the opportunity to see when they look at the workouts for Kettlebell Kaos, there’s something we call complexes. The kettlebell, because of its unique design, allows you to transition from one movement to the next movement very easily. So again, back to the short workouts that are focused around strength and are cardiovascular based, you don’t necessarily have to have a bunch of different sized kettlebells to do one workout and you don’t have to take a lot of rest periods if that’s not the goal of your workout. So you don’t have to have these elaborate rest and transition periods between movements. For example, let’s look at the clean to a push press. You’re already lined up and ready to go from a set of cleans into a set of push presses. Then from there the list goes on of movements that you can add on to those two movements then to complement that you can take kettlebells outside, you can travel with them, you can take them to the beach, you can throw them around. They are just really durable and you can have a lot of fun with them in environments outside of a training/gym environment.
Jason Brown: BJ, are we talking only physical benefits?
BJ: All of them baby! You guys can just go head-to-head and we’ll see who runs out first. Like Russian roulette.
Pam McElree: Oh no.
Jason Brown: A very small footprint. And what I mean is you train in a limited space; we train in a limited space. We have over 70 kettlebells in our facility – a very limited space – you can line them up against the wall, they don’t get in the way, you still have all that floor space to do your functional movements and running mechanics and your dynamic warm-up. It’s not like one piece of equipment where you can only do a leg curl with it. With this one piece of equipment you can do a 1000 exercises and when you don’t want it, you tuck it away in the corner and it sits patiently and waits for you to return. Go Pam.
Pam McElree: Depending on the brand or company that makes the kettlebell, they are one solid piece of iron or steel so they don’t break. Obviously the price has come down for kettlebells but people in the past have been really concerned about the cost of a kettlebell. The reality is that even if you buy a $100 kettlebell, you are always going to have that $100 kettlebell. So if you buy it when you’re 25, you’re still going to have that kettlebell when you’re 75, so that’s 50 years. I don’t know of very many other training tools that you can purchase and still be able to use the same way you did from day-1 50 years later.
BJ: How about this benefit? Olympic style barbell lifting versus kettlebell style Olympic lifting?
Jason Brown: I think the skill requirement is a lot lower so you can start getting it integrated into your programs much quicker. I think it’s more enjoyable for the general population to train with kettlebells than it is with barbells. At least when it comes to Olympic lifting. Just the design of the kettlebell… cleaning a barbell, my wrists cannot take it, but I can do it all day long with a kettlebell. Wrists, elbows – it just doesn’t have the same requirements as the barbell.
Pam McElree: The other benefit between those two is in a group setting, which most people who use this are going to be in. It’s easier to have people do snatches and cleans with a kettlebell for space reasons than it is on a barbell. So with a barbell, they are obviously going to be able to lift heavier weights with a barbell than you would with a kettlebell, but you’re limited in the number of people that can train at one time based on your square footages. With a kettlebell, as long as you have about a five-by-five area to work in you can get a lot of people in one room all working out together.
Jason Brown: I got another one for you BJ, are you ready?
BJ: Please!
Jason Brown: How often have you heard women clientele say ‘I don’t want to get big from lifting weights.’
BJ: Too many times.
Jason Brown: Too many times. For some reason and I’m stereotyping but it seems to be accurate, women don’t seem to associate lifting kettlebells with getting big. So you can just plug in the kettlebells. They don’t think they’re lifting weights but they actually are and building good muscle, getting their heart rates high, everybody’s happy.
BJ: Awesome stuff guys! To re-cap, from what I just gathered from you guys there are three big takeaways. 1) The lifetime value of the kettlebell and its cost-effectiveness are paramount. 2) The training economy. The ability to work multiple qualities seamlessly. Strength, power, endurance and plus the mobility aspect and all that cool stuff. 3) The bang for your buck. The fact that you can do it in a very small space and it is very cost effective and that it will last you a lifetime. Another personal anecdote for you. I have a 15-year-old brother who’s a football player and he’s my one personal training client at this time because I focus more on groups. He’s doing all kettlebell style Olympic lifting. I was able to teach him the clean within a couple of minutes and he mastered it. If I was to use a barbell… well, first of all, I can’t have a barbell in my house or gym, it just doesn’t work. The fixed environment of the barbell, you know, you have a strong arm and that was always a limitation for me when I was doing Olympic style lifting. I was right-handed and that would affect the way I would pull and usually there’s a strength and flexibility difference between sides. The beautiful part of the unilateral aspect of using kettlebells is that it eliminates these imbalances and it’s just very safe and very non-intimidating. When you’re a 15-year-old kid and you approach a barbell and even if you’re using training plates, it’s a very intimidating thing. I remember being there myself not too long ago. I guess the best way to put it is the kettlebell is just a lot more approachable. That’s very important when you talk about what Pam touched on regarding risk versus reward and that’s paramount. Especially in a group setting when you can’t have as much attention focused on individuals, as you want to. The stuff that they’re saying will be what will flash in your head the moment you hit up these kettlebells. Kind of your eureka moment. If you’re already using them, this is just stuff you’ll get, you’ll say, I didn’t realized that, but they’re right. Awesome stuff guys! That was great information. Moving on to the next part.
The Kettlebell Kaos Workouts. Now, I’ll be honest. Selfishly, I wanted to create this product with you guys for my own workouts. Since using this, I just can’t say enough about it and it’s a really cool way to keep your training fresh, fun and exciting. It’s got that animalistic, kind of primitive feel to it, which I think a lot of us respond to, especially the type-a personalities that I think are typical of most fitness professionals. What Pam and Jason did is they shared four of their favorite kettlebell templates that were time-based and we’re putting together soundtracks that will tell you what to do. So basically, it’s their workouts powered by Workout Muse. What I wanted to kind of go through is each of the four templates and have Pam or Jason alternate between each of those templates and describe the template. What it’s accomplishing, what’s the objective and maybe a sample workout to give people some ideas. Let’s start with Continuous 20 Minutes. Who wants to start?
Jason Brown: Continuous 20 Minutes. You start a new round – and it depends on how you arrange it – you start a new round of exercises every two minutes for 20 minutes. You can go longer, but you really want to keep it down to 20 minutes. So every two minutes you start a new round and we usually pick four exercises for 10 repetitions each. For example, 10 squat jumps, 10 snatches, 10 swings and 10 push-ups. Obviously, you’re worried about your quality of movement, but the faster you work, the more you rest. If you get all those repetitions done in one minute, you have one minute to rest. But if you get the circuit done in one minute and 50 seconds, then you’re screwed! You only have 10 seconds until the new round starts. So your goal is to work as quickly as you can to maximize your rest periods, while keeping a high quality of movement. So it’s a new round of exercises every two minutes for 20 minutes.
Pam McElree: The other component of that is to try to keep your power output the same throughout each round. So if you finish the first two minutes and you have 30 seconds of rest left, you want to try to get through the rest of the nine two-minute intervals, working for 90 seconds and resting for 30 seconds.
BJ: Very cool. So it’s a unique approach to density training, correct.
Jason Brown: Yes.
BJ: Do you have a marker? Let’s say we’re going with that same type of circuit style approach, like a circuit of exercises equals one round. Do your clients have a target like once they can complete a certain number of rounds in under one minute do they increase loads or go to harder exercises? How does that work?
Jason Brown: Yes. 1) They could use a heavier implement or 2) they could use a more advanced exercise. For example, the squat jump. You could use a box jump in place of that to progress. We use push ups but we use more advanced variations of it. It could be a plyo push up. It could be whatever, like a T stability push up.
BJ: Cool. Is there a time or a marker, like if they can the circuit done in under a minute, does that mean the load is probably too light?
Jason Brown: Yep, the load is too light in that instance. The average completion time is about 90 seconds allowing for a 30 second rest period. So most people take about a minute and 30 to get the work done and should choose the proper loads and exercise variations for their current fitness level that allow them to do so.
BJ: Gotcha! The next one is 15-30 Power Training.
Pam McElree: Jason, I’m going to let you take this one. I’ll take the last two ‘cause this one’s your baby.
Jason Brown: We do a lot of Power Training. We like to use kettlebells for our athletic populations. We like 15-30 because it allows us to do short sets of powerful repetitions if that makes sense. So with 15 seconds you can’t get a lot of reps in so we’ll use the appropriate weight (heavy loads), where we can only get about three or four reps in and try to move the weight as quickly as possible and we have 30 seconds off. One thing that we like to do with this BJ, is going back to the unilateral loading that you’ve been talking about, the first 15 seconds is a snatch or an extended snatch on your right side. Boom. Try to get it to go as quickly as you can on the right side. Try to get at least three explosive reps. Good. You’re off for 30 seconds. The next set your going to hit the left side. Explosive. As fast as you can for 15 seconds. Try to get three to four reps and just alternate arms. For the 15-30 workout, all the movements are powerful, ballistic movements usually an Olympic lifting variation or a highbred there of.
BJ: Very cool. For those curious on the extended snatch, that’s basically elevating your feet onto some stable surface that allows you to get greater range of motion than with the floor alone, correct?
Jason Brown: Correct.
BJ: The next one is Continuous 30 Second Movement Ladders.
Pam McElree: OK. So this one is basically a ladder. You can work with time for ladders you can work with movements for ladders, you can work with reps for ladders. So we just have a 30 second interval and we do 30 seconds of work and 30 seconds of rest. Then we do 30 seconds of work and a new 30-second exercise and then 30 seconds of rest. After each rest, you add on 30 seconds of a new movement. So any time we do unilateral work, you actually add on 60 seconds because we tend to go 30 seconds on the right, 30 seconds on the left. What this does is it increases the amount of total work time per round while keeping the rest period low and consistent. So over a 20 minute time period, you can get up to working to rounds of four to five minutes with only that 30-second rest. It’s a very cardiovascular-based type of workout. So it would be like 30 seconds of swings. Rest for 30 seconds. 30 seconds of swings. 30 seconds of goblet squats. Rest for 30 seconds. Swings, goblet squats, push presses, left/right. Rest for 30 seconds. Something along those lines.
BJ: Very cool. I cannot wait to crank that one out when it’s ready. All right, last one is the Succession Complexes.
Pam McElree: OK. Like I mentioned earlier, one of the reasons I really like training with kettlebells is because of the ease of transition from one movement into the next. So with the Succession Complexes, we pick between two and four exercises that you can do with a kettlebell and do a certain number of reps for each exercise (e.g. 10) before immediately moving on to the next exercise in the complex with little to no rest and transition. So we’ll go with let’s say snatches, cleans and then push presses. You do all your snatches, all your cleans then all your push presses in a certain period of time. It’s kind of interesting to explain without having the time intervals set up which you will have for us BJ. But again it gets a lot of work done in a specific period of time and is a very cardiovascular-based workout.
BJ: Awesome, awesome stuff. And again just to touch on the broad based appeal of these workouts, we talked about a lot of density typed applications and density is the biggest primer of fat loss. Everybody wants to burn fat. I know very few people that can’t pinch a little bit of fat in their hip/thigh or lower back or abdominal area and want to get rid of these pesky, stubborn fat area. And that’s what we’re talking about accomplishing here. In these Complexes, you’re able to actually move thousands of pounds within very short periods of time and that’s where that bang for your buck comes in. We’re building lean body mass and we’re doing some incredible elevations of metabolism, burning fat, torching calories. Each of these four templates that you’ve described, each one is a totally unique experience. The biggest problem with fitness is that it becomes boring, becomes stagnant. You hit plateaus. If you are one of those people or you have clients or campers who are saying I feel like I’m in a rut, than these are the templates that can break you out of any rut and get your body out of an adapted state. This is really, really killer stuff and when it comes to timing these workouts, it’s one less thing to worry about with these interval workout music tracks telling you what to do. You can focus on the technique and the form and just rip it out and get it done. Last questions before we conclude here. Some personal questions from the training. I’m a sweaty bastard. I sweat a lot and I get night sweats, some times meat sweats…
(Laughter)
BJ: It’s one of those things like you don’t want to wear a fanny pack to the gym. I don’t care how much utility it has, you just don’t wear fanny packs any more or ridiculous tank tops or those…what are those pants called from the 80’s? The stripped pants? Parachute pants? You know what I’m talking about! You just don’t wear those anymore, you just don’t do it. To make the connection here, in the same light you never want to wear gloves when you’re using a kettlebell and I’ll let you guys explain why. What do you do for the people with sweaty hands? Also please mention the benefit of doing kettlebell training barefoot versus wearing shoes.
Jason Brown: OK. So wearing gloves actually interferes with your proprioception. It’s like trying to do delicate work while wearing sneakers on your hands. Sneakers create dumb feet and dumb ankles. It’s the same was that always wearing gloves creates a dumb hand and a dumb sensory perception in your grip and your hand and wrist which travels all the way up into your shoulder and everywhere else. So that’s why we’re not big fans of gloves. If people do have big issues with grip you can always use chalk. We have chalk in our facilities. Some facilities may frown upon chalk but you got to get creative and carry a little chalk in your pocket.
Pam McElree: Yeah, and I mean a lot of people workout with towels. Most people don’t go to the gym or workout without a towel. So just dry off a little bit.
BJ: What about like a very small hand towel. Is that something that you could encase the handle as you grip? That would increase the demands of the grip of course. If I’m doings swings and I’m in a pool right now of sweat and I’m worried that it’s about to fly through the window or take someone’s head off, would that be something you guys would potentially recommend to squeeze in the towel and grip it with the towel?
Jason Brown: People do that as a variation itself to enhance the grip demand. If you’re already having a hard time with your grip, I’m not sure that I would recommend that.
Pam McElree: Yeah and I wouldn’t necessarily do that with anything like snatches, high pulls or those things that go overhead.
BJ: Because it would slip, correct?
Pam McElree: Yeah, I just think the safety component of it. Swings are fine, probably cleans or if you’re in the position to do push presses if you need to keep the towel there. But I think once you get into those ballistic, dynamic movements that go overhead, you’re setting yourself up for a little bit of injury to yourself or someone else.
BJ: You got it. Before we conclude guys, do you have any kind of closing thoughts regarding what we talked about that you wanted to touch on that we maybe skipped over?
Pam McElree: To be honest I think we covered a lot. This is awesome information that we just threw out there. Obviously, if anyone comes up with anything we would be happy to answer it for them.
BJ: Well, let’s kind of conclude it here. So basically, we’ve shared a brief history of kettlebells, safety guidelines, and the basic benefits which we found to be more than we could ever think of regarding the power of a single training tool and all it can do to unlock the potential of your clientele. Then we shared four incredible workout templates that have made Pam and Jason famous out in Philly at their kettlebell gym, Urban Athletes. Kettlebell Athletics is the name of the certification that they offer. So what you can look forward to is this: We have put together Kettlebell Kaos. Each week for the next four weeks for the month of April, there will be a featured track for the four workouts we just talked about. With that Pam and Jason have so generously put together some videos. So you will get a workout to go with each track as well. It’s a done-for-you, start-up approach to get you guys rockin with kettlebells. The applications- your personal workouts, your one-on-one’s, your groups, the athletic population and general population for fitness and we’re going to have a lot of fun showing you guys how to use this tool. I’ve already touched on how important it is that I think you need to get certified for this and learn it the right way so you can practice until you have it all down, then take it to you clients or campers and implement it safely in your camps. Their certification is top-notch. It’s the best. I can’t think of a better way to do it. They do a phenomenal job. The best thing I did last year for my own fitness was going to that certification and unlocking a beast within in regards to using this kettlebell. I can’t recommend them enough; they are two of my most favorite people in the world. They are also very attractive. Please talk about the certification and how one can get more information please.
Pam McElree: Sure. So like BJ said, Kettlebell Athletics Kettlebell Certification, we run a couple of times every few months. We often travel to different cities as well as host them at our facility in Philadelphia. You can get the current upcoming dates for the certifications at the kettlebells website: www.kettlebellathletics.com
I know that we have a couple ones coming up in spring. New Hampshire, North Carolina and then there’s a Level 2, BJ, in the Northeast here in October. So you guys can always get information on there, sign up for our newsletter on that website and we send you updates for newly added dates, newly added cities. Anything else Jason?
Jason Brown: That’s about it. And just one thing that I’d like to point out BJ, is that we cover a large part of our certification is actually program design and how to integrate the kettlebell within certain programs. I think that’s what separates us from other programs out there trying to do something similar.
Pam McElree: Yeah. We obviously go over a great many kettlebell exercises, how to do them, the progressions and the regressions, the coaching cues and all that is in a manual. But like Jason said, we also show you how to integrate that with bodyweight, bands and a variety of other things that you’ll find in most gyms, bootcamp settings, personal training settings. Just because there’s a value to being able to incorporate it into a current program.
BJ: Can you guys talk about the golden kettlebell? It’s very elusive, so please let us know how it works.
(Laughter)
Pam McElree: It’s solid gold. It’s a little bit of a secret until you get to the certification, but it is a prize to be won.
Jason Brown: BJ’s been thinking about the golden kettlebell.
Pam McElree: I know. Imagine what the prize is at the Level 2, BJ. The golden kettlebell is an award that we give away at the end of each weeklong certification. As you’ve probably seen or heard or might have seen in some of the videos that the criteria for it does constantly change. But it’s always a really hard decision for us to pick that that best person is, whether because their form is so great, whether it’s because they’ve improved so much over the weekend, whether it’s because they’re so supportive and energizing to the rest of the group. It’s a very pretty, shinny golden kettlebell. We’ve given out about four or five of them just in 2009 and we hope to be able to hand out a few more in this year.
BJ: I’ll be honest; it keeps me up at night.
Pam McElree: I know you’re trying to plot ways you can steal it from somebody who’s already one it.
BJ: I’ve got the hit list already outlined! I’d like to really finish off on this: If you are a fitness professional and you do a Level 1 certification with Pam and Jason, email us at support@workoutmuse.com and you will get a 30 minute Coaching Call with me and a soundtrack of your choice on the house. That’s how firmly I believe in what they do and what it can do for you guys and if you get Level 1 certified early in the year and you can make it to the Level 2 that Pam just mentioned, I will be there, it would be cool to do it together. So if there’s anything else that we missed, I’ll let you guys cover it.
Jason Brown: I think we’re good to go man.
BJ: Let’s get ready for a great month over at Workout Muse. Whether you’re on the Workout Muse list or the Kettlebell Kaos list or both, hopefully, you guys have a lot of cool stuff coming from us. I can’t thank Pam and Jason enough for taking the time to do this with us and you guys got a lot of information today so I hope you guys run with it. This is BJ Gaddour with Workout Muse. Thanks again to Pam and Jason of Kettlebell Athletics.
Jason Brown: You can reach me at jason@kettlebellathletics.com
Pam McElree: pamela@kettlebellathletics.com and the website is www.kettlebellathletics.com
BJ: Thank you guys and let’s have an awesome month!
